14 thoughts on “Should the Puerto Rican political prisoners accept Clinton’s conditional pardon?”
No they should not accept the conditions
I say no, but then I’m not the one rotting in some stinking cell.
RE: No they should not accept the conditions
I agree thet the terms are unacceptable. And I also keep in mind that it is easier to say from out side. Yet it is ovious that the imposed conditions are aimed at dividing the struggle. I any of the prisoners accept the conditions, it would present a divided front. It would also give the system justification. What I mean is thet if some accept and come out, the government would argue that they all had the option to be released and turned it down, without discussing the terms. With national and international attention mounting on the subject, holding out would be the best option. the US is becoming increasingly embarassad by the exposure on the subject of political prisoners, and with Cuba recently announcing the release of 27 political prisoners “without” conditions, the preassure is definitely on.
RE: No they should not accept the conditions
What are the conditions exactly? If I remember correctly, no right to bear arms, no right to coerce with independence groups, and…? I don’t think it unreasonable to demand that someone no longer have the right to bear arms in order to be freed from jail. That’s all I agree with though.
RE: RE: No they should not accept the conditions
Well, there are a whole slew of conditions. They have to individually ask for a pardon, they have to admit to wrongdoing, that their actins were indeed crimes rather than political actions for their country’s independence, they have to renounce violence completely, and must agree never to congregate with people who are independentistas. Now how, in God’s name, will any freedom fighter ever accept any of these conditions? It was really a set up, to allow Clinton to look good, to look benevolent while refusing to release the Puerto Rican political prisoners. I like the context and perspective Carlos Torres developed.
The pressure is on–and it needs to be increased to bring attention to these men and women and the independence struggle of Puerto Rico.
There is nothing to agree with in any of these conditions. The U.S. government’s underlying assumption in all of these conditions is that the Puerto Rican political prisoners are criminals. If you agree with this assumption, then yes you can begin to negotiate your release. If you disagree with this assumption which, I believe, is the position of all the Puerto Rican political prisoners and their supporters, then there is nothing here to negotiate. Clinton turn this issue into a kind of “plea bargaining issue” rather than what it really is the issue of a country that is still a colony and those men and women willing to give their lives to set it free. It may sound outlandish but indeed this is the crux of the issue.
Right On–good info!
This is a sound perspective from a politically strategic and international point of view. The Puerto Rican political prisoners need to support one another–as we need to support them. I disagree with supporting whichever position they individually wish to take. It has to be clearly stated that it would be a grave error for them to break and give into Clinton’s terms.
Clinton’s conditional pardon
Before this pardon there was a non-conditional situation!This condition
is an opportunity to negotiate other possible conditions.It’s not the goal, however,it’s a begining of the dialogue.
Use it as leverage to manipulate the media coverage it is recieving!!! Pa’lante!
RE: Clinton
No leverage.
If we have learned anything, it is that mainstream media is an adjunct of government policy. It is silly to think that the media that matters in forming public opinion can be manipulated.
The Puerto Rican political prisoners deserve nothing less than unconditional pardons. Hold them political prisoners hostage to conditions is a form of psychological torture, knowing that they want nothing more than get back to their families; and, in my opinion, a crime against humanity which can be adjudicated as such, certainly in these cases, where they were not charged with any loss of life.
RE: No they should not accept the conditions
Well said Carlos…
It’s not a coincidense that this all happening when the whole situation with Vieques is gaining more Intl. recognition. But it’s still an insult to include the part about not congregating with other independance groups in the pardon. These people could become powerful proponents (sp?) for the cause and they’re supposed to just go home and thank god (and the US Govt.)that they’re free. It’s easy for me to say but I would stay in a heartbeat.
RE: RE: RE: No they should not accept the conditions
Gloria estoy contigo. Creo que has hecho un analisis muy cabal de la situacion. Estas condiciones buscan humillar mas a estos hombres y mujers que injustamente han estado encarcelados. Hay que continuar la presion…LIBERTAD SIN CONDICION
RE: RE: Clinton
I agree. Clinton basically found a way out for himself without having to take a position. He said okay they can go but only if they YA-DA-YA-DA-YA-DA. Knowing full well that they wouldn’t. How could they? And just to show she’s her own woman–without really looking at the issue but merely using it in an attempt to neutralize Giuliani and gain some ground with conservatives–she swings against their release and goes a step further in calling for the President to withdraw his conditional pardon.
RE: RE: RE: RE: No they should not accept the conditions
El análisis es correcto para quienes estamos en la otra cárcel, la de afuera. Es cierto que la libertad condicional ofrecida por Clinton a los prisioneros políticos Portorriqueños es denigrante. Pero también es cierto que pedirle a estos prisioneros y prisioneras que no acepten ninguna condición para su libertad es inhumano.
Mejor, pongamos todos/as un poco de sacrificio. Hay que pronunciarse publicamente hasta crear consenso para una libertad incondicional.
They are accepting at least some of the conditions
The Puerto Rican political prisoners are coming home–wherever that home may be: New York, Chicago, ¿Puerto Rico? The world’s very different now or so it would seem. They seem to have renegotiated at least some of the conditions for their clemency. And apparently, or so I have heard, more of them (14) will be released. We haven’t heard the last of them.
RE: RE: Freedom needs no pardon!
You’re right Robert. Of course those political prisioners weren’t charged with any loss of life, because the only life being “lost” here is theirs; yet more, the punishment is set for the whole Puertorican society to warn them to renounce to freedom. I hope there is no one to forgive such a blasphemy.
11 are out and another will be out in 5 years
No new terms were negotiated. The eleven who are out as of yesterday left on the conditions established by clemency. They basically had their sentences commuted. For them to have to report to a parole officer is humiliating for all of us. I believe are larger strategy is in the works to have those terms modified, now that they are out of prison. My heart goes out to Oscar Lopez Rivera and the others who stayed behind bars, refusing to ask for forgiveness, admit to wrongdoing, agree not to congregate with other independentistas. I understand Prolibertad will continue to search for a way to get these men out.
No they should not accept the conditions
I say no, but then I’m not the one rotting in some stinking cell.
RE: No they should not accept the conditions
I agree thet the terms are unacceptable. And I also keep in mind that it is easier to say from out side. Yet it is ovious that the imposed conditions are aimed at dividing the struggle. I any of the prisoners accept the conditions, it would present a divided front. It would also give the system justification. What I mean is thet if some accept and come out, the government would argue that they all had the option to be released and turned it down, without discussing the terms. With national and international attention mounting on the subject, holding out would be the best option. the US is becoming increasingly embarassad by the exposure on the subject of political prisoners, and with Cuba recently announcing the release of 27 political prisoners “without” conditions, the preassure is definitely on.
RE: No they should not accept the conditions
What are the conditions exactly? If I remember correctly, no right to bear arms, no right to coerce with independence groups, and…? I don’t think it unreasonable to demand that someone no longer have the right to bear arms in order to be freed from jail. That’s all I agree with though.
RE: RE: No they should not accept the conditions
Well, there are a whole slew of conditions. They have to individually ask for a pardon, they have to admit to wrongdoing, that their actins were indeed crimes rather than political actions for their country’s independence, they have to renounce violence completely, and must agree never to congregate with people who are independentistas. Now how, in God’s name, will any freedom fighter ever accept any of these conditions? It was really a set up, to allow Clinton to look good, to look benevolent while refusing to release the Puerto Rican political prisoners. I like the context and perspective Carlos Torres developed.
The pressure is on–and it needs to be increased to bring attention to these men and women and the independence struggle of Puerto Rico.
There is nothing to agree with in any of these conditions. The U.S. government’s underlying assumption in all of these conditions is that the Puerto Rican political prisoners are criminals. If you agree with this assumption, then yes you can begin to negotiate your release. If you disagree with this assumption which, I believe, is the position of all the Puerto Rican political prisoners and their supporters, then there is nothing here to negotiate. Clinton turn this issue into a kind of “plea bargaining issue” rather than what it really is the issue of a country that is still a colony and those men and women willing to give their lives to set it free. It may sound outlandish but indeed this is the crux of the issue.
Right On–good info!
This is a sound perspective from a politically strategic and international point of view. The Puerto Rican political prisoners need to support one another–as we need to support them. I disagree with supporting whichever position they individually wish to take. It has to be clearly stated that it would be a grave error for them to break and give into Clinton’s terms.
Clinton’s conditional pardon
Before this pardon there was a non-conditional situation!This condition
is an opportunity to negotiate other possible conditions.It’s not the goal, however,it’s a begining of the dialogue.
Use it as leverage to manipulate the media coverage it is recieving!!! Pa’lante!
RE: Clinton
No leverage.
If we have learned anything, it is that mainstream media is an adjunct of government policy. It is silly to think that the media that matters in forming public opinion can be manipulated.
The Puerto Rican political prisoners deserve nothing less than unconditional pardons. Hold them political prisoners hostage to conditions is a form of psychological torture, knowing that they want nothing more than get back to their families; and, in my opinion, a crime against humanity which can be adjudicated as such, certainly in these cases, where they were not charged with any loss of life.
RE: No they should not accept the conditions
Well said Carlos…
It’s not a coincidense that this all happening when the whole situation with Vieques is gaining more Intl. recognition. But it’s still an insult to include the part about not congregating with other independance groups in the pardon. These people could become powerful proponents (sp?) for the cause and they’re supposed to just go home and thank god (and the US Govt.)that they’re free. It’s easy for me to say but I would stay in a heartbeat.
RE: RE: RE: No they should not accept the conditions
Gloria estoy contigo. Creo que has hecho un analisis muy cabal de la situacion. Estas condiciones buscan humillar mas a estos hombres y mujers que injustamente han estado encarcelados. Hay que continuar la presion…LIBERTAD SIN CONDICION
RE: RE: Clinton
I agree. Clinton basically found a way out for himself without having to take a position. He said okay they can go but only if they YA-DA-YA-DA-YA-DA. Knowing full well that they wouldn’t. How could they? And just to show she’s her own woman–without really looking at the issue but merely using it in an attempt to neutralize Giuliani and gain some ground with conservatives–she swings against their release and goes a step further in calling for the President to withdraw his conditional pardon.
RE: RE: RE: RE: No they should not accept the conditions
El análisis es correcto para quienes estamos en la otra cárcel, la de afuera. Es cierto que la libertad condicional ofrecida por Clinton a los prisioneros políticos Portorriqueños es denigrante. Pero también es cierto que pedirle a estos prisioneros y prisioneras que no acepten ninguna condición para su libertad es inhumano.
Mejor, pongamos todos/as un poco de sacrificio. Hay que pronunciarse publicamente hasta crear consenso para una libertad incondicional.
They are accepting at least some of the conditions
The Puerto Rican political prisoners are coming home–wherever that home may be: New York, Chicago, ¿Puerto Rico? The world’s very different now or so it would seem. They seem to have renegotiated at least some of the conditions for their clemency. And apparently, or so I have heard, more of them (14) will be released. We haven’t heard the last of them.
RE: RE: Freedom needs no pardon!
You’re right Robert. Of course those political prisioners weren’t charged with any loss of life, because the only life being “lost” here is theirs; yet more, the punishment is set for the whole Puertorican society to warn them to renounce to freedom. I hope there is no one to forgive such a blasphemy.
11 are out and another will be out in 5 years
No new terms were negotiated. The eleven who are out as of yesterday left on the conditions established by clemency. They basically had their sentences commuted. For them to have to report to a parole officer is humiliating for all of us. I believe are larger strategy is in the works to have those terms modified, now that they are out of prison. My heart goes out to Oscar Lopez Rivera and the others who stayed behind bars, refusing to ask for forgiveness, admit to wrongdoing, agree not to congregate with other independentistas. I understand Prolibertad will continue to search for a way to get these men out.